Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

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Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby growler » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:37 pm

Every Griz fan knows that we need help in our defensive backfield. Why are we not recruiting B. J. Ubani? Looks like Jerome Souers will get this kid, and we never even offered him! Looks like all Stitt covets is wide receivers and QBs. How many of each do we have on the roster now???

n.rivals.com/content/prospects/104499
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby growler » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:04 pm

Seriously, there are 4 or 5 2-star corner backs in the state of California who are not committed yet, but Montana is not recruiting any of them! I just don't get it. When finding strong D-backs is one of our constant weaknesses, why aren't we recruiting every one of these kids? Hell, we only need to get a couple of them to be successful with our 2017 recruiting efforts! The smart strategy is to offer all of them, and take the first two to commit. The elite FBS teams like Alabama, Michigan, Clemson, USC, and Ohio State offer almost every one of the top 50 players in the nation. They understand that they will never get most of them, but it is a numbers game. You offer a bunch of high-quality kids, then work hard recruiting them, realizing that it only takes getting 3-4 of them to have a great recruiting class.

We seem to set our expectations too low in many cases. NAU has offered over a dozen 2-star recruits. They have commitments from three of them already, and could get more.
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby Havgrizfan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:31 pm

Interesting, you start one thread bashing Stitt for NOT already landing a high school QB in this class, then you start another thread bashing him for recruiting too many QB's.

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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby growler » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:03 pm

Havgrizfan wrote:Interesting, you start one thread bashing Stitt for NOT already landing a high school QB in this class, then you start another thread bashing him for recruiting too many QB's.


God you are hard-headed. I don't give a flyin' f_ck about numbers. Stitt has not landed a 2-star QB, and 5 other Big Sky teams have. That's all you need to know. Stitt just thinks he can bring in a bunch of no-name QBs who nobody else recruits, and hopes one of them works out. He does the same for wide receivers. It is appalling the high percentage of our scholarship money he wastes on these two positions. If he had clue, and understood that defense wins championships, he would spend that scholarship money on defensive players, and hope to find 11 great ones who can dominate opposing offenses. I guarantee you that having lots of depth on defense will win way more games than having 15 WRs riding the pines every Saturday!
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby Havgrizfan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:58 pm

growler wrote:
Havgrizfan wrote:Interesting, you start one thread bashing Stitt for NOT already landing a high school QB in this class, then you start another thread bashing him for recruiting too many QB's.


God you are hard-headed. I don't give a flyin' f_ck about numbers. Stitt has not landed a 2-star QB, and 5 other Big Sky teams have. That's all you need to know. Stitt just thinks he can bring in a bunch of no-name QBs who nobody else recruits, and hopes one of them works out. He does the same for wide receivers. It is appalling the high percentage of our scholarship money he wastes on these two positions. If he had clue, and understood that defense wins championships, he would spend that scholarship money on defensive players, and hope to find 11 great ones who can dominate opposing offenses. I guarantee you that having lots of depth on defense will win way more games than having 15 WRs riding the pines every Saturday!


Didn't you say Phillips is a 3-star? Stitt landed him, and he is presumably No. 1 on the depth chart going into spring. BTW, he's STILL not disgruntled either. LOL

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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby growler » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:46 am

Havgrizfan wrote:
growler wrote:
Havgrizfan wrote:Interesting, you start one thread bashing Stitt for NOT already landing a high school QB in this class, then you start another thread bashing him for recruiting too many QB's.


God you are hard-headed. I don't give a flyin' f_ck about numbers. Stitt has not landed a 2-star QB, and 5 other Big Sky teams have. That's all you need to know. Stitt just thinks he can bring in a bunch of no-name QBs who nobody else recruits, and hopes one of them works out. He does the same for wide receivers. It is appalling the high percentage of our scholarship money he wastes on these two positions. If he had clue, and understood that defense wins championships, he would spend that scholarship money on defensive players, and hope to find 11 great ones who can dominate opposing offenses. I guarantee you that having lots of depth on defense will win way more games than having 15 WRs riding the pines every Saturday!


Didn't you say Phillips is a 3-star? Stitt landed him, and he is presumably No. 1 on the depth chart going into spring. BTW, he's STILL not disgruntled either. LOL


Did Stitt sign Phillips out of high school? Stop being a dick and trying to twist my posts to make yourself look smart. Everyone gets it, so your attempts are in vain. We all know that Phillips, nor any other Griz player, doesn't count you as their spokesperson, nor their advisor.
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby growler » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:55 am

I guess my main criticism of our recruiting efforts is in the methodology of how they do it. NAU recruits more like the FBS teams. They recruit and offer a lot of 2-Star players, knowing that they will only get very few of them. However, if they only get 3 of them each year, they can field a team with lots of high-quality players. Bobby Hauck used this same philosophy. He did not shy away from spending recruiting capital on kids that other Big Sky teams did not recruit, because they thought they had little chance of signing them. If you are really one of the elite FCS programs in America, like we were under Hauck, you can get players that other Big Sky teams could never get. NDSU routinely gets players who used to sign with Minnesota, Iowa State, etc. This is the result of performing at an elite level.

If we want to return to that level, we have to start by recruiting a higher level of athlete. It should be very revealing to all Griz fans that we had ZERO all-conference players on the 2016 All-Big Sky first team. Has that EVER happened in the past 25 years???
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby growler » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:02 am

Havgrizfan wrote:
growler wrote:
Havgrizfan wrote:Interesting, you start one thread bashing Stitt for NOT already landing a high school QB in this class, then you start another thread bashing him for recruiting too many QB's.


God you are hard-headed. I don't give a flyin' f_ck about numbers. Stitt has not landed a 2-star QB, and 5 other Big Sky teams have. That's all you need to know. Stitt just thinks he can bring in a bunch of no-name QBs who nobody else recruits, and hopes one of them works out. He does the same for wide receivers. It is appalling the high percentage of our scholarship money he wastes on these two positions. If he had clue, and understood that defense wins championships, he would spend that scholarship money on defensive players, and hope to find 11 great ones who can dominate opposing offenses. I guarantee you that having lots of depth on defense will win way more games than having 15 WRs riding the pines every Saturday!


Didn't you say Phillips is a 3-star? Stitt landed him, and he is presumably No. 1 on the depth chart going into spring. BTW, he's STILL not disgruntled either. LOL


I have one more comment on this post of yours........ I have a good buddy who is a huge Wyoming booster. We often discuss Wyoming football, and he knows how much I loved Joe Glenn. He states that everyone in Cowboy Nation loved Joe too, but the consensus was that Glenn could not make the recruiting transition from FCS type talent, to the FBS type talent needed to compete at that level. Perhaps they were correct. And, perhaps Stitt is suffering from the same problem, being unable to elevate his recruiting game to the FCS level from the Division II level. So far, he has been unable to recruit a stud QB. EWU has three of them who could start for us, and Stitt has none!
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby grizindabox » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:55 pm

Curious, when did growler become a knowledgeable college recruiter........that is right......he isn't.....

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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby grizindabox » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:56 pm

growler wrote: we had ZERO all-conference players on the 2016 All-Big Sky first team. Has that EVER happened in the past 25 years???



You can thank Mick Delaney.

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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby Grizfan-24 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:49 pm

THis is just from Stitt's first three recruiting classes. I omitted other contributors, significant ones that weren't rated, but roughly 1/2 of their scholarshipped players right now (roughly 30-35 been a few that have left or the number would be higher).

The slightly ironic thing about this years class is that it is loaded on Montana kids, 10 with likely a couple more to come, who aren't rated . According to one prominent poster is the heart of the Montana program. Montana kids are rarely ranked (unless they go to camps) or their value is typically undervalued versus over valued in the ranking systems.

2 Star or higher recruits:
2015
Chad Chalich (3 Star)
Markell Sanders (2 Star)
Jeremy Calhoun (3 Star)
Justin Calhoun (3 Star)
Coby Eaton (2 Star)
Holden Ryan (2 Star)
Donovan Rooks (2 Star)
Dalton Daum (2 Star)
Angel Villanueva (2 Star)
Cy Sirmon (3 Star)
Jesse Sims (3 Star)

2016
Reese Phillips (3 Star)
Justin Strong (3 Star)
James Homan (JC 2 Star)
Brandt Davidson (JC 2 Star)
Miles Osibodu (JC 2 Star)
Gresh Jensen (2 Star)
Rey Green (3 Star)
Samori Toure (2 Star)
Dareon Nash (2 Star)
Samuel Akem (2 Star)
Thayne Jackson (3 Star)
Ashton Torres (3 Star)
Dylan Eickmeyer (2 Star)
Josh Egbo (2 Star)
Gavin Crow (2 Star)
Caleb Mitchell (2 Star)

2017
Payton Stoner (2 Star)
Skyler Martin (2 Star)
Carder Key (2 Star)
RJ Nelson (2 Star)
Michael Mathews (2 Star)
Caleb Hill (3 Star JC)
Chris Favaroso (2 Star)
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby growler » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:25 am

Grizfan-24 wrote:THis is just from Stitt's first three recruiting classes. I omitted other contributors, significant ones that weren't rated, but roughly 1/2 of their scholarshipped players right now (roughly 30-35 been a few that have left or the number would be higher).

The slightly ironic thing about this years class is that it is loaded on Montana kids, 10 with likely a couple more to come, who aren't rated . According to one prominent poster is the heart of the Montana program. Montana kids are rarely ranked (unless they go to camps) or their value is typically undervalued versus over valued in the ranking systems.

2 Star or higher recruits:
2015
Chad Chalich (3 Star)
Markell Sanders (2 Star)
Jeremy Calhoun (3 Star)
Justin Calhoun (3 Star)
Coby Eaton (2 Star)
Holden Ryan (2 Star)
Donovan Rooks (2 Star)
Dalton Daum (2 Star)
Angel Villanueva (2 Star)
Cy Sirmon (3 Star)
Jesse Sims (3 Star)

2016
Reese Phillips (3 Star)
Justin Strong (3 Star)
James Homan (JC 2 Star)
Brandt Davidson (JC 2 Star)
Miles Osibodu (JC 2 Star)
Gresh Jensen (2 Star)
Rey Green (3 Star)
Samori Toure (2 Star)
Dareon Nash (2 Star)
Samuel Akem (2 Star)
Thayne Jackson (3 Star)
Ashton Torres (3 Star)
Dylan Eickmeyer (2 Star)
Josh Egbo (2 Star)
Gavin Crow (2 Star)
Caleb Mitchell (2 Star)

2017
Payton Stoner (2 Star)
Skyler Martin (2 Star)
Carder Key (2 Star)
RJ Nelson (2 Star)
Michael Mathews (2 Star)
Caleb Hill (3 Star JC)
Chris Favaroso (2 Star)



Nice job of embellishment. I don't know where you are getting your "star rankings", but they don't come from Rivals, which is by far the most accurate recruiting site. If they came from Scout, I would not even give them any credibility. I could give you many examples from Rivals as to where your star rankings are too high, but will include only a couple here to prove my point.

You say Cy Sirmon was a 3-star recruit? Rivals has him as a ZERO-Star recruit. Quite an embellishment!

https://n.rivals.com/search#?query=cy%2 ... 522:1%257D

You said that Chad Chalich was a 3-star recruit??? Here is how Rivals rated him.....

https://n.rivals.com/search#?query=chad ... 522:1%257D :lame: :lame:

You said that both Calhoun brothers were 3-star recruits. Only Jeremy was a Rivals 3-star recruit. Justin was a ZERO-STAR recruit...

https://n.rivals.com/search#?query=just ... 522:1%257D


I could list many more examples of players you stated were 2-star recruits, but who Rivals gave ZERO stars to.

We have recruited some 3-star players. Rey Green, Jeremy Calhoun, Thayne Jackson, & Ashton Torres

The point I was focusing on was our inability to recruit better quality D-backs, specifically corner backs. Where are the 2-star CBs in your recruiting lists from the past 3 years? Gavin Crow is a legit 2-star recruit as a DB, but isn't he a safety? Correct me if he is playing CB, but I just don't see the quality recruits at the CB position we need to defend the pass, which has been a problem area for us for several years.
Last edited by growler on Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby Grizfan-24 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:47 am

I got the information from Peyton's list over the past three years. He has done a good job at posting rankings over the years, and at the time of recruiting which is more important I guess to this argument.
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby Grizfan-24 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:06 pm

Moreover,

I could personally give a shit about them, because as I have stated before and have been pretty consistent about I don't particularly think the evaluation system they use is highly accurate. I liken them to the baseball draft boards that different clubs use. They weight things differently, because frankly evaluating players is all subjective in the first place. You evaluate and rank players based upon the skills they have that you want. Only one professional sports entity is at all consistent in its rankings and that is the NHL with their central scouting service.

I have done some cross checking for baseball before, and getting 10 scouts to come to a singular projectable account on a player is nearly impossible. The rankings are guidelines or suggestions, but they really don't indicate future success. The rankings are great for fans to debate, but most colleges would be loathe to depend upon them for evaluation purposes.

Just because a guy is a 3 star CB isn't going to portend future success at the FCS level. The top 300 have had eyes of 50 to 100 college coaches and bevy of talent evaluators. Outside the top 50 or so in each region, the variance is much wider (a 3 star might really be a 1 star) as you have fewer eyes on those players. As you drift away from that top 300 or so, the weaknesses in evaluating as well as faults or shortcomings in the players greatly increase the variance as well.

If you go to camps during the summer and you have a rivals or a scouting combine in the same space, you'll find out almost immediately how much they vary.
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Re: Don't Let Jerome Steal This Kid

Postby growler » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:49 pm

Grizfan-24 wrote:I got the information from Peyton's list over the past three years. He has done a good job at posting rankings over the years, and at the time of recruiting which is more important I guess to this argument.


Oh, so I prove by listing links that several of the players you listed a 3-star recruits are actually zero-star recruits, and you say that Peyton's ratings are the accurate ones. Nice.

All you are doing is blathering about the same tired argument made that "not all 3-star rated kids pan out", or "just look at Kroy Bierman and Mark Mariani, they had zero stars". I get it. But nobody with a clue would try to argue that any FCS team signing more 2-star and 3-star kids than other FCS teams will undoubtedly have better players. If stars mean nothing, then why does Peyton, you, and every other Griz fan, get a woody every time we get a commitment from a 3-star player? You can't it both ways. Bottom line is...... the more players signed with stars attached to their names give a team a better recruiting class. Period!

And, I notice that you did not bother to address the absence of 2-staror higher CBs in the past three classes, even though that position is one of weakness every season.
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