Did an up-tempo spread offense....

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby CV Griz Fan » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:08 am

BWahlberg wrote:Not only that but an uptempo high scoring offense beat the best defense in the nation.

I thought only defense won championships.


Alabama's poor performance on 3rd down 2-15 and the Frosh QB's non existent passing game hurt their chances as much as anything. Clemson's D played huge. They knew the Alabama QB couldn't beat them with his arm....

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby BWahlberg » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:38 am

Robgriz wrote:Don't worry. Growler will be along to tell us how Clemson is actually a "multi pro-set style" offense because once or twice a game they may or may not have two RBs in the backfield and they have a 7 foot 320 pound tight end or some such nonsense and that he called it in 3....2.....1....


It was actually a triple set multi pro blend spread air but mostly pro offense. And did you notice the TE was somewhat close to the tackle and also hey I think I saw a fullback on the sideline, so that proves the multi triple pro blend spread set, or something.
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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby Raider » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:58 am

Side note:

These two exact same threads, started on two Griz message boards, does nothing but validate growler and give him the attention he so desperately seeks.

Even if you are right, you are wrong, so why bother?

:twocents:

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby Robgriz » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:06 am

Raider wrote:Side note:

These two exact same threads, started on two Griz message boards, does nothing but validate growler and give him the attention he so desperately seeks.

Even if you are right, you are wrong, so why bother?

:twocents:

Because, for some reason, I find it hilarious

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby Grizfan-24 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:09 am

Alabama's Achilles heel was under center. Saban can recruit a lot of things, but he has struggled getting a top echelon QB in the house. He has a ton of four and five star guys, but most of guys recently haven't more than replacement value.

I think Hurts gets there eventually, but he has some flaws in his game (struggles throwing the ball), but it showed last night what he has a long way to go. Clemson has great lateral quickness in its front seven, and they bottled up the Tide and prevented them from getting to creases. Aside from a couple big plays (two long TD's in the first half, and the big screen and go play) Bama looked...well...pedestrian.
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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby Raider » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:19 am

You could argue that this debate does nothing by support the argument he has been making about “scheme”.

Clemson won a great game last night. They ran 95 plays, had 500 yards of offense, etc. They have a once every twenty year quarterback and a first round WR that extended three crucial drives with huge catches on 50/50 balls. What is being overlooked in this whole thing is the play of the Clemson defensive front and linebackers. They looked “Alabamaesque” last night and have all season.

They also beat an Alabama team that was very limited offensively, with a one dimensional 18 year old quarterback and their stud RB hurt for most the game. That is not taking anything away from Clemson at all. Again, they played great and the play-calling on two of the final three drives was stellar.

Alabama has won 4 of the last 8, using a formula of a limited/mistake averse offensive scheme, all world defense, and very disciplined special teams.

Just being the devil’s advocate, which program would you rather be?

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby brewskis » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:19 am

Almost as pedestrian as Urban Meyer's Ohio State.


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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby Robgriz » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:23 am

Raider wrote:You could argue that this debate does nothing by support the argument he has been making about “scheme”.

Clemson won a great game last night. They ran 95 plays, had 500 yards of offense, etc. They have a once every twenty year quarterback and a first round WR that extended three crucial drives with huge catches on 50/50 balls. What is being overlooked in this whole thing is the play of the Clemson defensive front and linebackers. They looked “Alabamaesque” last night and have all season.

They also beat an Alabama team that was very limited offensively, with a one dimensional 18 year old quarterback and their stud RB hurt for most the game. That is not taking anything away from Clemson at all. Again, they played great and the play-calling on two of the final three drives was stellar.

Alabama has won 4 of the last 8, using a formula of a limited/mistake averse offensive scheme, all world defense, and very disciplined special teams.

Just being the devil’s advocate, which program would you rather be?

Truthfully? I'd rather be Clemson. Not that I have anything but respect for Alabama, I just think Saban is a douchenozzle

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby Raider » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:26 am

Oh, I agree on that point.

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby CV Griz Fan » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:36 am

Grizfan-24 wrote:Alabama's Achilles heel was under center. Saban can recruit a lot of things, but he has struggled getting a top echelon QB in the house. He has a ton of four and five star guys, but most of guys recently haven't more than replacement value.

I think Hurts gets there eventually, but he has some flaws in his game (struggles throwing the ball), but it showed last night what he has a long way to go. Clemson has great lateral quickness in its front seven, and they bottled up the Tide and prevented them from getting to creases. Aside from a couple big plays (two long TD's in the first half, and the big screen and go play) Bama looked...well...pedestrian.


Exactly. Alabama's O couldn't take over the game or put Clemson away in the first half when Clemson's O was vulnerable. Alabama's D got winded late. Clemson's O came on late. Clemson's D deserves the game ball IMO.

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:51 am

I think you guys are giving Clemsons defense a bit too much credit. Does Clemson have a good defense yes its pretty solid, but remember their best pass rusher ended up sidelined with an ankle injury that happened during the game.

Clemson gave up 31 points to a VERY average Bama offense.

Washingtons defense gave up 14 points to the Bama Offense.


Clemson had turnovers, bad snaps, dropped balls and still beat Bama. The media has helped turn Alabama and Saban into this unbeatable juggernaut and that simply isnt the case.

If Clemson plays a clean mistake free game they win by double digits and Alabama isnt built to play catch up........wait, they are unable to play catch up. Not enough talent on the offensive side of the ball.
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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby Grizfan-24 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:00 am

Saban's offenses have always been perceptively more Vanilla, more power and control than speed and finesse. I don't think it has to do anything as to why they win or don't win. A person could say the same about their defense. I don't think Alabama wins because it does everything sexier, but they do it cleaner. They do it cleaner with vastly superior personnel.

Saban will never be known as an offense or defense innovator, but rather creating a recruiting powerhouse and a program that is incredibly deep with talented, fast and powerful personnel. That doesn't mean his scheme is superior, it means his personnel is.

Alabama couldn't overpower Clemson, couldn't bully them, and there was some definite limitations to their offensive scheme last night. Always has been there, but few teams in the past decade have been able to take advantage of it. Was at a coaching clinic two years ago, and conversation broke out on a panel about the substance versus style argument. I think Alabama wins a series of 7, 4 games to 1 or two. I don't think you can outrun or scheme around what Alabama does on a consistent basis. But if the talent level is roughly equal, and Clemson's defense (like last year) was up to the task, Alabama can be had schematically both offensive and defensively. You just have to have personnel to do it.
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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby grizindabox » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:25 am

To be honest, the Saban approach is the same as the Hauck approach.

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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:46 am

grizindabox wrote:To be honest, the Saban approach is the same as the Hauck approach.


To a degree, except Hauck did it with nowhere near the talent or depth Saban has.

I was talking with the guys I watched the Washington game with and told them that its amazing that Saban gets 95% of the players he wants in the country and yet only scored 14 points on offense against the Washington defense. I give credit to Saban for building a recruiting powerhouse and having the horses, but when it comes to saying hes the best coach in college football he doesnt get in my top 5.
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Re: Did an up-tempo spread offense....

Postby growler » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:51 pm

Trying to say that Clemson's defense is not great is a joke. They totally shut out Ohio State. The difference in the game came when the stud Bama RB went down. Clemson could not stop him. When he left, the Bama running game was negated, forcing a below-average passing QB to try to move the ball through the air. It was over at that point.

All this does is support my contention that no team can win without being able to run the ball, and Stitt's teams can not run the ball. None of you have ever understood that my concerns about Stitt's offense are not that it is a spread offense, but rather it is the MOST EXTREME spread offense in the country, with ZERO tight ends on the squad, and no back who can provide a solid lead block for short-yardage and goal-line plays.

Just so you understand, Clemson has 6 tight ends on their roster, as well as a FB that they use for short-yardage situations, out of the spread. They also ran the pistol a few plays, something that is foreign to Bob Stitt. More importantly, Clemson's receivers run defined routes, and Stitt's don't. That is a HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Finally, Sabin told reporter Joe Rivera today something about Alabama's offense this season getting away from what has been successful in past seasons, taking a subtle shot at Lane Kiffin going more to a spread offense.
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